Monday, August 22, 2011

An Inclusive Response to "Once Saved, Not 'Forever' Saved"

Thank you for waiting patiently for me to respond to your comments on "Once Saved, Not 'Forever' Saved". Instead of tackling each comment separately, I have decided to respond with an all inclusive post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

After much searching through Scripture, prayer, and consideration, let me share with you my conclusions and address your comments...

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Daniel, I too believe "God, Who is soveriegn and omniscient, knows the future." He knows and searches the hearts of men (Psalm 139:1-4, John 2:24-25). He is the Creator, Ruler, and Sovereign Lord over all creation (Isaiah 40:28, Revelation 1:5). Nothing will ever surprise Him, whether it be the trials we experience (consider Job 1-2), the corruption of the church, the rise of evil rulers, natural disasters...or a person falling away from saving faith in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior. I agree with the statement "if a person professes faith at one point in their lives, but that person will not profess faith at the end of their lives, I believe God already knows that."

Hannah, you quoted Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." To this I say: absolutely! Amen and amen! I wholeheartedly believe this verse! Salvation is not earned by any good works, as Galatians 2:16 (and many other portions of Scripture) also confirms: "yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified in Christ." Now, after we are reconciled to the Father through belief in Jesus Christ, we are to do "good works" and conform our lives according to Christ's life (James 2:14-26, Romans 12:1-2, 2nd Timothy 1:9, 1st Peter 1:14-16)), as Ephesians 2:10 goes on to say, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." But that's a different topic, of course.

We were dead in our sins (Ephesians 2:1-3), but God, rich in love, mercy and grace, has provided the way of salvation through the death and resurrection of His perfect, sinless Son, Jesus Christ and has made us alive in Him (1st John 4:10, Ephesians 2:4-7, John 3:16, Colossians 2:13-15). (And yes, Amy, just praying a "sinner's prayer" does not save you.) This clearly dispels "decision theology" and "making a decision for Christ", but again, that's another topic.

We cannot "keep" our salvation by good works. God is the Author and Perfector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). "And I am sure of this, He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6) Just as our good works or "righteousness" cannot save us, we cannot keep our salvation by it. It is only by the grace of our Lord and His work on our hearts which draws us to Himself; He sanctifies us through His Word as His Spirit works on our lives. But, we can harden our hearts and reject the salvation He so freely gives. We can fall away. Our precious Lord Jesus Christ even solemnly said, "I have said all these things to keep you from falling away." (John 16:1) [Emphasis mine throughout quoted Scripture in this post.]

The Bible clearly warns us time and again of this:

"Therefore, let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall." 1st Corinthians 10:12

"Therefore, we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it. For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard," Hebrews 2:1-3

"You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to eternity." 2nd Peter 3:17-18

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons," 1st Timothy 4:1

"The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with Him, we will also live with Him; if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He also will deny us; if we are faithless, He remains faithful." 2nd Timothy 2:11-13

"...Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some." 2nd Timothy 2:17-18

"Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called 'today,' that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end." Hebrews 3:12-14

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He Who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23

Amy, you said "If a person 'falls from the faith', then it is evidence that he/she was never truly saved in the first place." Amy, an unsaved person cannot depart from the faith because they never had faith to begin with! As God's Word clearly says, a person who falls away from the faith previously believed, and as Jesus said in Luke 8, the cares, riches, pleasures, and trials of this life, as well as their own sinful nature, choke their faith, causing them to fall away. So to claim those who fall away from the faith weren't actually saved is not Biblically correct...or logically correct for that reason, either.

>>> "If this did mean you could lose your salvation, then it would mean when you do lose it you can never get it back again. That is a wimpy salvation."

Hebrews 6:4-6 is speaking of those who have hardened their hearts in unbelief and are unrepentant. Because they have turned away from the Lord - after knowing Him - and reject the gracious gift of salvation (thus blaspheming the Holy Spirit and sinning the 'unpardonable sin' [John 5:16, Matthew 12:31-32, Mark 6:29-30,), there is no forgiveness for them, as they are not seeking it. But if they eventually do come to repentance, there is forgiveness. Consider Peter; after he denied our Lord, but then repented, Jesus reinstated him in John 21:15-19, and also Romans 11:

"Then you will say, 'Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.' That is true. They were broken off because of their disbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again." Romans 11:19-23

>>> "A person can have a lot of knowledge of the truth and not truly be saved. Knowledge does not save you."

I will agree with the statement "Knowledge does not save you", as only belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will. But knowledge is part of belief and knowing is part of salvation.

Let me explain it this way: If I had just stumbled across your blog and read a post or two, I would believe you existed. But since I have met you personally, have talked with you on several occasions, and do try to keep up on your blog, I not only believe you exist, but know you exist and my knowledge of you grows as I get to know you better. This is what Scripture most often means when the words "know", "knowledge", or "knowing" are used to describe our relationship with Jesus Christ and salvation through Him. Consider God's Word:

"For I am not ashamed, for I know Whom I have believed, and I am convinced that He is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me." 2nd Timothy 1:12

"This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1st Timothy 2:3-4

"...so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith - that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." Ephesians 3:17-19

"Indeed I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord." Philippians 3:8a

"...and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus." 2nd Thessalonians 1:7-8

"For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ." 2nd Peter 1:5-11

Knowledge is part of sanctification and spiritual growth. When Hebrews 10:26-29 mentioned "the knowledge of the truth", the writer is speaking of those who have believed and have known Jesus, and have fallen away. How tragic for those who depart from the faith!

>>> "Some people make a commitment to Christ that is not genuine..."

Yes, I can agree with this statement. They are imposters, and fit well with the description of Jude 1-16.

>>> "1st Timothy 1:19b-20 ~ Apostates do just that."

The definition of "apostate" according to Webster's 1828 Dictionary is as follows: "One who has forsaken the church, sect or profession to which he before adhered, has abandoned his religion;" And "apostasy" means, "An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion." So yes, apostates, like Alexander and Hymenaeus, do reject their faith and fall away from belief.

And yes, Amy, nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (John 10:27-29, Romans 8:33-35, 38-39) - as long as we continue to believe in Him. This is eternal assurance, not eternal security.

Does this seem unreasonable? Truly, the things of God do seem unreasonable to us human beings and at times "foolish" (Romans 1:18, Isaiah 55:8). We must only accept what He says, with faith like a child. "Oh the depths and riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgements and how inscrutable His ways!" (Romans 11:33)

Yankeegospelgirl, one point I do want to make is, yes, we are not condemned to hell by our sins; Jesus provided forgiveness for our sins. Sin does not condemn us; but it is unbelief that condemns us (Mark 16:16). We are saved only through the precious blood of our Savior Jesus Christ and God's amazing grace.

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This has turned into an extremely lengthy post. I have spent many hours of research and typing, but it has been worth it...for me, at least.

I have not written these words lightly, but with much consternation, concern, consideration, study, and prayer. I have been spurned to greatly search the Word of God and made to consider many things through your comments. This has driven me deeper into God's Word, for which I thank you. :) If God's Word can be proven wrong by God's Word, not by any interpretations or implications of man, I will gladly reconsider my beliefs. I do not desire to be deceived by misconceptions, and I strive to cling to God's Word above all things.

"Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. See to it that no one take you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-8

I pray you would consider God's Words and seek His truth above all things. I consider all of you friends and brothers and sisters in the Lord, and I trust you consider me the same.

This is good discussion. Let's do it again sometime! :shock:

Your sister in Christ,
Taylor

26 comments:

Daniel J. Mount said...

If a group of Christians discussing a doctrine are earnest about sticking to their talking points at all costs, nothing good can come of the discussion. But if they are earnest about searching the Scriptures, they can usually find more common ground than they expected—and, whether or not they do, always have an edifying and uplifting discussion.

I have been delighted to see the latter apply here. This topic is one where people too often just stick to talking points, quoting creeds, catechisms, favorite pastors, or favorite authors. But this has been an edifying and well-reasoned discussion.

I have known people who believe that someone can walk away from the faith and surprise God. I'm glad we share the common ground of faith that God is omniscient!

That leaves the scenario at hand being that of someone who professes faith in Christ at one point, but dies denying the Gospel. Were they saved in the interim?

To that, I'd make two observations:

(1) We agree that God knew that they would not end up saved. If someone professes faith in Christ, but God knows they will not end up saved, are they saved in the meantime? That, I suppose, is the question under discussion.

(2) When viewed from the perspective of God's omniscience, the hypothetical scenario of "what if they had died before leaving the faith?" doesn't apply, since that would involve surprising God by dying before He expected you to!

Like so many other issues, I believe that this is one where things are clear from God's viewpoint, since He knows the future, and will be clear retrospectively to us, looking back from Heaven.

It's the here and now, in our finite understanding, where things get messy. God knows how our life will end up. We don't. That's why we need to press toward the mark, running with patience to the prize set before us.

yankeegospelgirl said...

God's being surprised by someone losing his faith is a new one on me. I must say I've never encountered that idea myself.

yankeegospelgirl said...

"When viewed from the perspective of God's omniscience, the hypothetical scenario of 'what if they had died before leaving the faith?' doesn't apply, since that would involve surprising God by dying before He expected you to!"

Could you clarify this? I'm having trouble seeing what you mean here.

Miss Taylor said...

Here's my interpretation of Daniel's observation (I don't mean to put words into your mouth, Daniel, but this is how I understood it!):

If someone would present the case of "But what if they had died before leaving the faith?" just for discussion's sake, as a hypothetical scenario, it wouldn't even be pertinent, as Daniel said, "that would involve surprising God by dying before He expected you to!", and I think we've all concluded nothing surprises God.

yankeegospelgirl said...

Oh, I believe I see now. That feels wrong philosophically, but I have a couple experts I can ask there---this is right up their alley. ;-)

Amy W. said...

Taylor,
Here are my comments back:
Some of the verses you mentioned aren't really talking about what we are talking about. We must be sure we are taking verses in context with the rest of the verses they are with.

1st Timothy 4:1 ~ There are many professing believers that truly aren't saved and so eventually it will be revealed in their lives that they were never truly saved.

People who endure give evidence of their salvation. If they do not, it gives evidence that they were never truly saved. By their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:20)

Yes, an unsaved person cannot depart form the faith, because he/she has never believed, but he/she can depart from so-called faith, faith that really isn't saving faith. When I said faith I meant it in a different way than you took it. As I have said already, some can say they are in the faith and not really be. It all depends on your definition of "faith". Luke 8 is talking about false converts, something a little different than how you are taking it. A lot of people can pretend to be Christians for a time, but eventually when hardships comes their "true colors" show forth.

"I will agree with the statement "Knowledge does not save you", as only belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will. But knowledge is part of belief and knowing is part of salvation."
~Knowledge *is* a part of belief, but it is NOT the only part. Hearing and learning about the Gospel is good(Romans 10:14), but it does not save us. God is the one who saves us and causes us to see our sins as they really are and turn from it. Once we are saved we must and we will want to grow in our knowledge of God! But if we just know Him, but haven't truly been saved, then that is what I was trying to get at with you. Just knowledge about Christ doesn't save you.

"When Hebrews 10:26-29 mentioned "the knowledge of the truth", the writer is speaking of those who have believed and have known Jesus, and have fallen away." ~You can have the knowledge of the truth and not be saved.

Yep, apostates fall away because they were never truly saved. Here is John MacArthur's definition of Apostates: "Apostates are those who move toward Christ, hear and understand His gospel, and are on the verge of saving belief, but then rebel and turn away."

But let me get to the meat of the matter and the verses that VERY CLEARLY teach about the Perseverance of the Saints, because they are very clear and you must remember that God never backs down from His Word.

"And yes, Amy, nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God (John 10:27-29, Romans 8:33-35, 38-39) - as long as we continue to believe in Him." ~That last part you added in there isn't in the Bible. The Greek word for "Separate" means: to separate, divide, part, put asunder, to separate one's self from, to depart. We CANNOT separate ourselves from God once we are saved. That is a biblical fact.

John 10:27-29 ~"Neither shall ANYONE snatch then out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and NO ONE IS ABLE to snatch them out of MY Father's hand." ANYONE means anyone and NO ONE means no one. God is greater than ALL. So once we are saved, we can't even snatch *ourselves* out of His hand.

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and NONE OF THEM IS LOST EXCEPT THE SON OF PERDITION, that the scripture might be fulfilled."~John 17:12

I hope you will consider what I have shared. This has been a good discussion, although it has taken up a lot of my time as I know it has yours. As you said: "I pray you would consider God's Words and seek His truth above all things." That is my prayer for you!

~Amy

Daniel J. Mount said...

Taylor, your translation into plain English is correct. :)

Miss Taylor said...

Okay, Daniel! :) I didn't consider your comment "unreadable/understandable", and my "translation" was basically the same as your comment. :)

BUT, I have to ask: what does "soteriology" mean (as you mentioned in a previous comment on the other post)? I am familiar with some "big" terms (like othropraxy), but of this word, I am ignorant! :)

(And I have composed a response to your comment, Daniel - which will hopefully be published soon after edits - and will eventually be responding to you, Amy)

yankeegospelgirl said...

Taylor, I'm going to go ahead and post my own response here. Hope it's helpful to you as you prepare your own.

After consulting with the expert, I now have the answer to Daniel's statement.

First, let's break down exactly what he is saying, in logical terms:

1. If God knows something (we’ll call it “P”), then it has to be true.

2. Whatever has to be true cannot be false.

3. Whatever cannot be false has an impossible negation.

Therefore,

4. If God knows P, then not P is impossible.

However, there’s a problem with this line of argument, and it rests in the ambiguity of the first premise. There are two different things it could mean:

1a: It is logically necessary that if God knows something to be true, it is true.

1b: If God knows something to be true, then it is logically necessary.

The error is assuming 1b. Were we literally to take it and apply it to our everyday lives, even outside of theology, it would render all “would have” statements meaningless. Yet Jesus himself makes such statements. He says that if his miracles had been performed in Sodom and Gomorrah, they would have repented in sackcloth and ashes. The miracles weren’t performed there, and Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed-—that is a truth. However, it is ALSO a truth that they would have repented if things had followed a different course.

This philosophy was first laid out in the 16th century by Luis de Molina, and it provides a third alternative to hyper-Calvinism on the one hand and open theism on the other.

Miss Taylor said...

Daniel, yes this has been actually been an edifying and challenging discussion, at least for me! It has great to be able to dig into the Word and good practice in "always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect." (1st Peter 3:15b) :)

And yes, God's Word needs to be the ultimate source from which we derive our beliefs, worldviews, and standards; if we all start quoting from other sources which seem to fit our own box of belief, then it's just one's word against another's word, when it's really God's Word that stands.

>>> "That leaves the scenario at hand being that of someone who professes faith in Christ at one point, but dies denying the Gospel. Were they saved in the interim?...If someone professes faith in Christ, but God knows they will not end up saved, are they saved in the meantime? That, I suppose, is the question under discussion."

Let me share God's Word (and Amy, here is something for you to consider as well):

"...because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:9-11, 13

"Then he brought them out and said, 'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.'" Acts 16:20-31

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16

If God says, "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved", shouldn't we take Him at His Word? So if a person does at some point in their lives truly believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, confess with their mouth, and are baptized (as Scripture says)...and God does not save them because He knows they will eventually fall away - that would make God out to be a liar, unfaithful, and salvation a game. That would mean God has backed down from His Word.

God does not lie (Hebrews 6:18) and God is faithful (1st Corinthians 1:9). God says in His Word He will save those who believe in Jesus and claim Him as their Lord and Savior, and God means just what He says. We cannot try to twist God's Words to fit our own interpretations and speculations.

I have known people personally who have confessed with their mouths that they believe in Jesus Christ and have shown much fruit over years of following Him...and have fallen away from Him. Judging by their fruits, I can confidently affirm they were believers and they were saved, but they now have rejected their beliefs in Jesus Christ, and their current fruit shows it.

And yes, I completely agree with your last statements, Daniel and echo them wholeheartedly. Truly God knows it all, and "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." (1st Corithians 13:12) I can't wait for that day! Come Lord Jesus!

yankeegospelgirl said...

To clarify my own comment, I too believe wholeheartedly in the complete omniscience of God. I was simply attempting to point out the logical slip in Daniel's particular statement that the question of "What if this person had died before falling away" is illogical and meaningless. Hopefully it wasn't too dry and technical for someone to follow. :-D

Amy W. said...

Taylor,

It looks like you and I are on two different wavelengths with this discussion and from what you said in your last comment you are not fully understanding what I am saying. And I don't think it is worth our time discussing this anymore because it is obvious that we are both set in our beliefs on this subject, so it may be just as well to agree to disagree and end the discussion.

Does your whole family believe this way?

I hope you all are having a great summer! :)

~Amy

Hannah said...

Wow, there's been a lot of comments on here since I last checked! ;-)

Taylor, I just want to say that - even though we may not agree on this issue completely - I really appreciate the time you've taken to carefully study the Word of God. I can tell you've been very thorough and you don't just go to different books (although those can be good too) but you go to the Bible!

And even though theology is very important (and I always love a good debate!) I know we'd both agree that loving Jesus is the most important thing! :-)

God bless,
Hannah

Miss Taylor said...

Yes, Amy, I think the discussion has come to a close.

My latest comment wasn't addressed particularly to your last comment, but I had something I wanted to share with you as well.

This entire discussion has been very thought-provoking for me, and I have done intense study of God's Word over this past week...for which I am very grateful. (And actually, I personally am not going to cease studying this subject, but am going to take every thought captive to the light of His Word.)

Yes, at this current time we should agree to disagree...and both thoroughly consider what each other has presented and compare all the thoughts here to God's Word.

I do have other thoughts from Scripture on what you last commented, but I'll let them rest for now. And yes, my entire family agrees with Scripture on this topic, and has been involved in this online discussion through "over dinner" talks, reviewing my comments/blogs, and searching the Bible with me.

I do still consider you a friend, and though we may not agree on this subject, there are many other subjects I'm certain we agree on.

Hope all your family is having a good summer as well; say "hi" to your sisters for me. :)

Blessings!
Taylor

yankeegospelgirl said...

Taylor, this discussion has made me curious to ask---what denomination is your family affiliated with? Are you Assemblies of God, Pentecostal, or something in that ballpark?

Amy W. said...

Taylor,
Yes, I still consider you a friend as well! I will say "Hi" to my sisters for you. :)

I enjoy delving into God's word in general and also on specific subjects. :) BTW, our whole family believes in eternal security and this discussion was discussed within our family as well. :) And also, as a side note, I found out that there is a limit to how long of a comment blogger will let me publish!

I am glad you all are having a good summer! We have been busy with weddings this month, which has been wonderful! :) We have also been busy with the garden produce and other various things. Summer is a wonderful time of year! I am loving it! :)

Blessings!
~Amy

Miss Taylor said...

YGG: Brace yourself! (Just kidding.) We are conservative LCMS (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) Lutherans...and that's NOT the liberal denomination which always makes the news. So, you kind-of struck out with your guesses of Assemblies of God and Pentecostal; we are definitely not Pentecostal! :-D

Miss Taylor said...

*Hannah: Yes, I believe these two posts pulled in the most comments I've received in my blogging history, except for my 19th birthday post which brought in a debate over college. While this whole "debate" was rather intense (well, at least for me!), I did enjoy the discussion and the Bible study. :)

I love discussing/debating theology and doctrine as well (except for the stiff necks and late nights that results involve sometimes)! My family and I have been involved in many doctrinal discussions and each one has driven me deeper into the Word.

And yes, while we might not agree on this subject, we can absolutely agree loving and serving Jesus with our entire hearts and lives is the most important thing. (Which reminds me I have to email you... :$)

[P.S. If y'all can't tell, I finally figured out how to add HTML tags into comments. It's so fun! After five years of website work, and now I just figured it out...]

Miss Taylor said...

*Amy: So, what exactly is the limit to Blogger comments? Did it tell you how many characters it would allow? Just curious!

Our summer has been flying by all too quickly! I had made it a goal to spend more time outside and prove it by a suntan, er...sunburn (I am an indoor person, so it is a challenge to go outside for me), but with all the crazy weather, procrastination, and other things, I haven't spent much time outside. :( And we've been relatively busy with the band as well - which is always good.

Well, enjoy the rest of your summer!

Amy W. said...

Yes, it did tell me and I was thinking I should have written down the number, but I think the limit was a little over 4,900 characters! :)

~Amy

Amy W. said...

Oh, and I know how you feel! The Summer has been going by SO fast, it's kind of sad. But there *are* wonderful things about each season of the year. :)

I missed seeing you all at the Itasca Family Bluegrass Festival earlier this month. I was thinking you would probably be there, but I didn't see you. We were finally able to make it this year for the first time! We LOVED it! We would definitely like to go there again next year, if it works out! :)

Blessings!
~Amy

yankeegospelgirl said...

ROFL! Yes, I guess I did strike out. Big-time! :D

As for our family, we actually attend an Anglican-Catholic Church, which is definitely Protestant, but there are still ways in which it borrows from Catholicism that we just have to quietly rebel against. LOL. (It all started with the Oxford Movement---you should look it up. It was kind of sad.) The truth is that we're not entirely one denomination or another. We enjoy the old-fashioned Anglican liturgy, so that's what we gravitate to in terms of how we worship, but our theology is basically Baptist. So we call ourselves High-Church Baptists. :)

yankeegospelgirl said...

I just went and re-read your post on college and the debate that ensued.

You might be interested in this article on the moral break-down of even the Christian colleges today. It's quite disturbing but very important for Christian parents and prospective Christian students to be aware of:

http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2011/08/w4_exclusive_dordt_college_quo.html

Miss Taylor said...

Amy: I'm so glad y'all were able to attend Lake Itasca! We didn't go this year for a number of reasons, but I do love going up there. The fellowship is so sweet, music awesome, and the atmosphere is so peaceful. Hopefully we'll go next year!

Miss Taylor said...

*YGG: I love liturgical and ordered worship as well. Since we started traveling as the band, we have been able to experience many different types of worship services across the denominations...and I keep coming back to traditional, structured worship, as found in LC-MS churches. :)

On "Christian" colleges, and just college in general - yes, it is extremely disturbing to hear the reports of young adults whose faith and beliefs are compromised. The things the colleges are indoctrinating this generation with are atrocious, and the campus environment is equally as bad. I'm SO grateful to be at home! People may call me "sheltered", but I love it! :)

-Taylor

yankeegospelgirl said...

In the case of Dordt College, it looks there is a "progressive arm" that's like a cancer inside the school---it even controls the school newspaper! There may be lots of good people there, but it hasn't stopped poison from spreading anyway.